[00:01:28]   heyyy he friends that was a little early my name is Aaron Ciotti everybody man I'm having a hard time lately cut cutting the cutting that music off at the right time my name's Aaron Ciotti everybody

[00:02:34]   calls me Ciotti welcome to the show it's whoop Wednesday we are going to take a look at lower KV motors which apparently might make more power KV is not everything KV is important and

[00:02:51]   nine times out of 10 a higher KV motor will make more power than a lower KV motor the the the the one scenario where kind of like 100% of the time a higher KV motor will not make more than

[00:03:08]   a lower power lower KV motor is when you're putting a propeller onto the motor that's just too much you're you're You're Expecting too much of the motor and it can like almost kind of bog down

[00:03:21]   kind of like if you try to go up a hill in fifth gear in your car that doesn't have gobs and gobs and gobs of power it can almost like kind of bog down you're asking too much of the in

[00:03:37]   that scenario engine in our scenario motor what happens with these brushless motors when when when that's the situation is that you will keep dumping more and more and more amps

[00:03:54]   into the motor but you won't get any extra power it'll just turn those extra the extra electricity into heat and so obviously you don't want that I am taking a quick look

[00:04:11]   at ah interesting okay oh wa03 I was waiting on a reply back from somebody and I've got it here so that's good let me just cool Marco on onano Marco onano

[00:04:35]   messaged me a while back and he said I've got the flywoo 23,500 I've also got the RC and power 22000 KV Motors they're both 102s I swear that the RC and powers make more power

[00:04:53]    and somebody else had mentioned that as well somebody else had mentioned that the RC and power 10 to 22,000 actually perform more like a 24,000 KV motor which is super super

[00:05:08]   super interesting and so I don't know what I placed an order with with get FPV coming up on a week ago and do I not even have a tracking number yet I really kind of need that order I I I I

[00:05:33]   need the motors less than I need to the frame on that order I might need to message them tomorrow and be like what's happening here friends newbie Dr I I did an order with

[00:05:49]   newbie drone at the same time and that came a couple days ago I know that get FPV is kind of merging with rdq so maybe there's something going on there but I need need this for I

[00:06:03]   ordered a the new version of the AOS c 25 frame which I need because I'm doing an 03 build for America Criterium cup at Aniston not this weekend the following

[00:06:20]   weekend and I need to I need to get that built so I can test it a little bit and make sure that it's not going to hurt any bicyclists but I need that frame ALS Al I also have

[00:06:33]   the 03 version of the qav frame coming from CNC Madness it's looking like that's going to get here first which is kind of fine I'm fine building in either one the the AOS CNA 25 is

[00:06:47]   mind-blowingly fragile unfortunately but it has less obstruction of the thrust so it's more efficient you just can't crash it so I'm actually okay which whichever one I

[00:07:01]   get first basically is is going to be the the the fresh build that I do and then this is like the opening this is the first time I'm going to be running 03 if it works okay

[00:07:14]   I will pull one of the existing builds apart and swap the frame and put 03 in it but for right now I I'm not going to pull either one of those apart because for all I know the I don't

[00:07:27]   know the 03 system might be a pain in in some weird way so that's what's going on with that come on get FPV I need my stuffin the chat free lojo is first Bo Weber was next Riot n Tong out FPV Moy

[00:07:41]   Timmons Arc ARS UK Scotty Scott mothy wake and bake raging Le Travis Sawyer kilo zebra Scotty Scott Northern Tier Troy prag Frank Nicholas beef fbb it's a good name AJ Farah limits mcus

[00:07:58]   peace and love FPV valua Daniel 1964 AJ Farah free lojo again Douglas otwell Walter Riot 9 parkour guy CMYK FPV free lojo again Cole Powers Cole Powers I haven't seen you in a while how are you

[00:08:15]   man sea will 661 Douglas Atwell sea will doesn't like the the opening song I get at least one person a month that's likewhat's the opening song I love it and I need it so see

[00:08:33]   well I think you're in the minority maybe not but maybe I've never changed it because people consistently tell me that they love it so I'm like okay where were we here

[00:08:47]   661 sebb D Dan Zilla Matt Norton DEC cabal AJ Farah Max melner Jason Krab Jason Krab you I haven't seen you in a while either man how have you been John Luca and Anonymous what's up

[00:09:04]   friends thanks for coming let me just click a couple of buttons here I got to make sure that I don't lose this message I got to reply back to a couple of people there and I just don't want to

[00:09:20]   lose that tab all right that should be good we're going to try to fly six batteries today they're going to be 75mm 4 I'm sorry they're going to be 45 mm propeller and 40 mm propeller

[00:09:36]   batteries we will put the ultra light 75mm WalkSnail rig up in the air as a comparison Point and then we're going to put the 75mm Pro build up in the air with the flywoo motors on it the

[00:09:55]   flywoo 102 23,500 KV Motors and then we're going to swap this over to a set of iflight Zing 102 22,000 KV Motors and we're going to see I haven't heard anything about these

[00:10:13]   motors so maybe maybe the RC and power 102s are just some kind of magical unicorn dust but I was doing the Newbie drone order and they had these motors and I just thought what

[00:10:27]   it's really makes sense for us to kind of to try out pretty much all the 102s so for science we're going to try these zings I'm weirdly kind of hoping tonight that these don't make more power because

[00:10:45]   well let's dive into it Motors brushless motors BR brushless OutRunner Motors are designated by their stator size and their KV primarily those are the two big things in our case

[00:10:59]   we're looking at 102 Motors 10 mm wide 2 mm tall very very small motor but very very small lightweight rigs the other designation is the KV this is basically the RPM of the motor we are in a

[00:11:16]   scenario with these builds where I am not drastically over propping these motors which we talked about a minute ago so that's not going to come into play here we

[00:11:29]   could probably run all the way up to like 30,000 KV Motors and we still would would barely be over propping them on on a 102 we're looking at 23,500 KV versus 22,000 KV a difference of

[00:11:46]   1,500 which is absolutely significant I should be able to feel the difference between these motors and what what what I should be able to feel is that the flywoo 102

[00:11:58]   23,500 should make more just straight up more power than these 22,000 from iflight Zing but but but but but even though the Stater size and the KV are the two main contributing

[00:12:17]   contributing factors to how much power a motor make how efficient it'll be blah blah blah there are a whole bunch of other things that come into play I'm going to miss a lot of them but just off

[00:12:30]   the top of my head the air gap that is the the the distance between the magnet and the Stater poles that's called the air gap the the tighter the air gap the more power the motor is

[00:12:47]   going to make but potentially the more Fragile the motor is going to be the the motor Bell sits up here like this and then the stator is like this and if you start smashing this motor and

[00:12:59]   you knock the the if if you bend the motor shaft on the Bell the magnets can come into contact with the Stater poles the outside of the Stater poles and that's pretty much game over for that

[00:13:10]   motor you can try to bend it back but once that motor once the motor shaft is bent it's never going to be the same again if you bend it back the first time you crash it's going to bend right

[00:13:23]   back over again so for the most part when that happens you just trash the motor so the air gap is super important the strength of the magnets is super important U by the way 99% of this info

[00:13:39]   is based on conversations that I've had with Chris Rosser Mark spatz UAV Tech and Ryan harell of mini quad testbench these are the guys that know far more than than I do you know

[00:13:54]   I'm not an engineer like they are so I just pay ption to the engineers and I have been doing that for many many years now and I will typically like have a conversation with those guys and

[00:14:07]   then I'll do sort of a bunch of my own testing and then I'll usually go back and Bug them again and be like I just wanted to confirm a couple of things I tested this that and the other

[00:14:16]   thing and then usually a while later another six months to a year later I'll check back in on them and just I I'll have other variations of questions to kind of ask

[00:14:29]   them it's just good to kind of for me at least to revisit this stuff and make sure that I'm not well I mean I am crazy but make sure that I'm right at least while I'm being crazy

[00:14:41]   so that's where the majority of this info comes from these are the guys in FPV that have more knowledge surrounding this stuff than anyone else so they're the people that I try to

[00:14:52]   surround myself with and have as many conversations as as I possibly can so air gap between the magnet and the Stater poles the strength of the magnets these manufacturers will make claims of

[00:15:07]   using n52 magnets or n48 magnets from what I understand they are almost never actually n52 magnets or n48 magnets they are sign significantly lower strength magnets that we actually get in in in

[00:15:24]   our Motors our Motors are very inexpensive for what they are and we beat the snot out of them so if if these motor manufacturers were going to try to charge 30 40 bucks a

[00:15:37]   motor none of us would buy them some of us would buy them we would buy them for a while and then we would get sick of how expensive it is to run and then we would probably end up buying the

[00:15:47]   less expensive Motors that perform pretty good so the the the designation of the magnet matters the thickness of the magnet matters quite a bit actually and as Chris Rosser has

[00:16:03]   recently proven with his Motors thicker magnets are not necessarily always better there's there's a point of diminishing returns with the thickness of the magnets and so there's a

[00:16:17]   little bit of a balance there the the thickness of the laminations in the stator pole matter if you ever look at at at a stator from the side you'll see that there's laminations

[00:16:30]   to it the tighter that those laminations are the more power that motor can potentially make the volume of the copper windings that are in the motor when when you make a motor that's 22,000

[00:16:45]   KV let's say You're supposed to maximize the thickness of the winding material so that you get as much copper as possible around the Stater poles for a given KV when you see a manufacturer that just

[00:17:03]   has one KV of a motor in theory you're safe because they specked out that KV they specked out the thickness the thickest possible winding that they can run on there and away they

[00:17:18]   go if you see a motor where there's a bunch of different KVs 18,000 20,000 22,000 I start to get a little bit wary there because again most of our stuff is being produced as cheaply as possible

[00:17:34]   and the cheapest way to do that with multiple KVs is to take the lowest KV so in our example here 18,000 KV and to figure out the the correct thickness so the the the higher the KV the less the

[00:17:51]   winds around each individual Stater pole so at 18,000 KV there's going to be the most most possible wines on the Stater poles so the the thickness of the copper wire is going to be as thin as is going

[00:18:06]   to be the the thinnest out of the other KVs the the and then so they've got a machine that that winds these things so for 18,000 KV they figure out the correct wire thickness they put that

[00:18:22]   wire into the machine they they tell the machine I need you to do 15 wines per stator pole the machine fires up 15 wines per stator pole great they knock out a whole bunch of motors

[00:18:35]   and then they're like okay we did 18,000 KV which is 15 wines now we want to do 20,000 KV which is 14 wines less wines higher KV the easy thing to do is just to punch that into the machine and tell it to do

[00:18:49]   14 wines and this is something that absolutely does happen in the FPV world I I I don't have any specific information this manufacturer does it this manufacturer

[00:18:59]   doesn't but I I've heard from reliable people that absolutely this has happened before it's probably happening right now and it will probably continue to happen in the future so you just punch in the

[00:19:10]   machine 14 wies leave the leave the thickness of winding material that's in there wind it for 14 wies and the KV measurements are based off of an unloaded motor so there's no propeller

[00:19:24]   on it and with no propeller on it there's practically no load mod on the motor so it really doesn't test how much power the motor can make it just tests how high it will spin up RPM

[00:19:39]   wise and then you get your 22,000 motor you do it again you tell it not 15 wines not 14 wines 13 wines and you do it and so what you end up what you can potentially end up with is an 18,000 KV

[00:19:53]   motor that's got the correct amount of copper wound around the Stater poles the the thickness of the copper wire paired with the number of turns 15 is is just the random number that I

[00:20:07]   pulled out of the air is perfect and there's no extra space and there's a ton of copper on each Stater pole and that motor makes great power it doesn't make high KV but it makes great power because

[00:20:18]   it has a lot of copper around the windings which is one of the things that allows these motors to make power but then your 22,000 KV motor once you've put a propeller onto it to load it down

[00:20:29]   there's a potential that it can make less power because there is you did not increase the thickness of the windings the right way to do it if you have multiple KVs is each individual KV you

[00:20:45]   calculate what's the maximum thickness of wire that you can put on there for the specific given number of turns but as you can probably guess it's going to take more time to do that

[00:20:58]   they're going to have have to pull the machine apart they're going to have to retool the machine for each individual motor there are motor manufacturers that do it that way I don't again know

[00:21:08]   specifically which ones but so and these are kind of the things that that for example right there that is one of the really valuable things that you can learn from

[00:21:23]   motor testing bench motor testing is great data but it doesn't tell the whole story but this situation right here that we're talking about is a great example of where you can you can

[00:21:36]   see it sometimes in the bench motor testing if like so Ryan Harold's website mini quad test pench has tons and tons and tons of thrust tests from all different Motors and so what you would

[00:21:48]   want to look for is the same exact motor but two different KVs and then just take a look at how much power they're making if once they're loaded down with a propeller which is how you do thrust

[00:22:00]   testing if the higher KV motor is not making significantly more power there's a chance that you're you're sort of in that situation where they didn't retool the machine sometimes you can tell by

[00:22:13]   the weight of the motor right cuz the copper is the copper is heavy but it's unfortunately there's not typically quite enough consistency in in the production of these motors for that like

[00:22:26]   sometimes you'll notice that you'll get a set of four Motors and the the shrink wrap on one motor is like extra long and on another motor it's extra short shrink wrap is made of rubber it's

[00:22:37]   kind of heavy that can have an impact there so just weighing Motors is unfortunately not a good enough way of kind of mythbusting that I've kind of been down that road

[00:22:50]   before and I got some really weird results and I talked to a bunch of people about it and they're even like the the length of the the length of the of the lead here

[00:23:01]   can can vary a little bit let's see if we can see if I can maybe have an example that right in front of us here they're pretty damn close but you guys know what I'm saying there's a

[00:23:14]   bunch of variability on these motors these motors are not made in high enough quantities where the whole process is automated where you're going to get it absolutely perfect every single time if

[00:23:26]   you want an example of that grab a bunch of Motors fresh out of the box and wait well let's see let's see if we can catch iflight Zing sleeping on these four Motors here I've got four absolutely

[00:23:41]   brand new Motors let's see 2.59 hold on yep 2.59 there you go 2.57 trying to load the scale down each time 2.58 2.60 so four Motors four obviously very slightly different weights but these

[00:24:13]   are tiny little Motors right like they're with with the bigger Motors that that I've seen more variability than that so lot of different things that can affect a motor's ability

[00:24:28]   to produce power to produce thrust whatever you want to call it the KV is the KV one of the first things that Chris Rosser tests in all of his recent motor testing which

[00:24:39]   has been phenomenal and you should check it out if you have any interest in this stuff one of the first things he tests is the measured KV versus the actual KV and a lot of times they're

[00:24:52]   not quite right but still the the the KV does matter and it n like I said earlier n times out of 10 the KV is a really good indicator if you've got two Motors and one of them is a higher KV

[00:25:05]   almost always that higher KV motor is going to make more power but sometimes it will not and the the the lower quality the motor the more drastic you're going

[00:25:21]   to start to start to see that stuff and we have some some manufacturers in FPV that really focus on in super inexpensive stuff and when you focus on that the quality kind of goes out the

[00:25:33]   window Freo says today is Wednesday April 3rd thank you for the reminder my friend Riot 9 says old school hell kiss for life no kiss not for Life kiss for frustration

[00:25:44]   parkour guy says hello by the way if you want to talk to me in the chat all you got to do is type c FPV if you do that it'll light up an orange you can do that with each other if you want to get

[00:25:52]   Riot 9's attention all you got to do in your message is Type R ye T and then the number nine and for him his name will light up on Orange and know you're talking to him so if you want to get

[00:26:01]   somebody's attention that's how you do it for me you can do a super chat if you want to support the insanity that is trying to do full FPV full-time SE fpv.one for Content creators and you

[00:26:27]   know a lot of us put content up on YouTube that's free so hook us up take three extra seconds find an affiliate link before you check out every time you do an an order on the Internet or

[00:26:37]   take our affiliate links and replace your bookmarks then you don't even have to think about it every time you hit get FPV you'll be hitting my affiliate link you'll go to the crossfire Nano you'll

[00:26:46]   say who wants one of those and then you'll buy your other stuff there's an Etsy store where you can buy some fun stuff there's a Fiverr page where you can work oneon-one with me there's a

[00:26:56]   Teespring store where you can get some fun shirts this is the shirt of the day from blipshift it's an autocross joke what do you think of that CMYK says what's up gangly gang chat and C FPV

[00:27:09]   parkour guy says these the RC and Power 102 they work like a dream in my M 7 I wish man I'm patiently waiting for get FPV to get me my to get me my RC and power 102s but these

[00:27:24]   are the iflight Zing 102 22,00 so we'll test these and see if they're as magic as the RC and power I have a feeling the RC and powers are just magic maybe they're using a stronger

[00:27:36]   magnet maybe they're doing less of an air gap who knows but it makes sense to test as much of what's out there as possible fre lojo putting the patreon link into the chat thank you dude

[00:27:48]   Douglas otwell says snowing here thank goodness for tiny whoops and CiottiFPV where the hell is it snowing it is really cold even down here in Atlanta though I I guess I can see it

[00:27:58]    danzel the terrible says good evening peace and love FPV says I get four plus minutes on my 072 16,42 KV motors with meteor 65 Pro frame and 35 mimer quad blades

[00:28:15]   hummingbird V3 AO and camera so much Precision nice for new racing who the hell makes 0703 16,42 KV Motors what is that who's making them HappyModel made an

[00:28:33]   0703 oh oh wow the the that's right man these are old school this is an old school set of newbie drone Motors God I forgot all about these damn well I

[00:28:47]   mean that it the the meteor 65 Pro frame is is about right for an 0703 that that's a good pairing of motor to frame and then you're also running the byblade so 703 is a big motor

[00:29:04]   that that's a lot of Stater volume 16420 is a fairly low KV so it makes a lot of sense to put that on the bigger frame with the 35 mm propellers quad blades tiny whoops on quad blades are

[00:29:20]   tough I think what you're doing with the quad blades there is putting a Band-Aid on the fact that that KV is really low but then the Stater volume is kind of high it's a big motor low KV

[00:29:31]   so it actually makes a lot of sense what that setup that you've done there I don't personally like the way any of the Quad blades fly the way they fly but I'm not a racer for racing the more

[00:29:43]   blades the more grip so that's a super interesting combo there and four plus minutes is really good a big motor a big heavy 703 has the potential to really eat the battery

[00:29:56]   so that's a super interesting combo there fre lojo says is it going to be get rdq now Tim says what screwdriver do you recommend for the Philips screws on these tiny whoops I have always had

[00:30:10]   really good luck with weha screwdrivers and the one that I find is just right for the tiny whoop screws is the 261 if you type into Amazon get there with my affiliate link if you

[00:30:27]   don't mind if you type weha 261 this will come up you can probably get a set of them get a set treat yourself spend 20 bucks and get a set of weha screwdrivers they are super Precision

[00:30:41]   the the they're German made of course so they're of course fantastic be rolling my eyes as hard as I can no they're they're just great screwdrivers my dad turned me onto

[00:30:52]   these way back when and I've been using these for Jesus 25 years these are the this is the same set of weas that I used way back when when I ran an airsoft customizing shop and man I

[00:31:07]   took apart and put back together hundreds and hundreds of those things and these things have have just lived and lived and lived and lived they're small enough here where where you can't

[00:31:20]   get enough leverage to like strip stuff out they've got this nice little cap in the back that spins really freely so you put the cap against your palm and then it's just really really it it

[00:31:31]   they're it's just right they very obviously designed these a million times and had a shitload of feedback over the years I love them they're really really good and I've used them

[00:31:42]   as I've used them as punches and I've I've mistreated them and abused them and they've always been totally cool the only one that I've Ever Needed to replace was my 1.5 mm Allen

[00:31:58]    a lot of the screws on the airsoft aegs back then were m1.5 and we would really crank those tight because once you're out in the woods running around with them and just the way that

[00:32:12]   those gearboxes work they create tons of vibrations they would love to vibrate screws out so that 1.5 was pretty hammered ass when I got into FPV and then eventually it's just rounded

[00:32:25]   itself off but all of the other ones that I've used a lot over the years have held up really well so weo wi Jason Crabtree says what's up SE will says I like the opening song

[00:32:40]   just feels time for something fresh maybe that's just me I don't really have many others it's I I I only have I got sent a folder of songs way long ago and that opening song is

[00:33:00]   is the best one from that folder and then the the exit song is like kind of the second best one so I I would need to start poking around for people that have royaltyfree

[00:33:12]   music that I can maybe buy off of them because there's there's no other songs in that folder that the guy sent me that that I really dig AJ Farah with a $10 Super Chat he says thanks for

[00:33:23]   your service last last night you were certainly welcome my friend all in a day's work Cole pow says I often miss the beginning of streams I like to blame Discord notifications but

[00:33:34]   it's not entirely their fault Cole spend $3 a month on my patreon and you will get emails before each and every live stream AJ far says just goofing I appreciate all the wisdom you share

[00:33:47]   with us 661 says what all 45mm props do you have and have tried I've only tried the the byblade GemFan 45s both 1 mm and 1 and a 12 mm and they're both extremely unbalanced for me

[00:34:05]   really I've only ever tried the 1 and half mm shaft byblade and triblade and I have not noticed I mean I guess I haven't I have not had propellers be out of balanc in so long that it's barely on

[00:34:26]   my radar anymore if I'm totally honest I can't remember the last time I even thought about that but now I'm going to be thinking about it I'll pay more attention to it now I when

[00:34:39]   I first put this thing together now that I think about it when I first put this thing together it did have a bunch of Jell-O it was kind of because I didn't crank down the the screws on

[00:34:51]   the on the camera once I cranked down the screws on the camera from what I remember the jello went away but I'm going to pay more attention to it now that's super interesting I

[00:35:01]   don't really think that there are any other 45 mimer props other than the gem fans are there 45mm props GemFan gem fan I'm not seeing any other 45mm propellers so interesting I will I will certainly

[00:35:28]   be paying more attention to it's just all GemFan I mean like there's these but these are definitely going to be out of bounds and they're not one and a half millimeter

[00:35:38]   motor shaft interesting okay thank you dude that's that is really good food for thought duck says why do you recommend the HappyModel 2g4 instead of the BetaFlight BetaFPV rather cross AO plus

[00:36:01]   a separate VTX it seems financially more sensible to go with BetaFPV but what makes happy models worth it the two big things are weight H three big things weight reliability and complexity or

[00:36:17]   a lack thereof the the HappyModel setup is lighter it is way more durable I I've I've heard from so many people that the BetaFPV cross AIO just explodes immediately In fairness a lot of

[00:36:34]   people a racing is way more popular than freestyle in the world of tiny whoops and the racers pretty much all run the BetaFPV cross AIO so yes because there's more of them out there there are

[00:36:45]   going to be more complaints I have personally not had one of the BetaFPV cross AOS die on me I've also not run more than like 40 or 50 batteries through any of them that I've had so

[00:36:58]    and I also don't crash them I only use the BetaFPV cross AIO in the WalkSnail builds which don't get slammed like the freestyle builds do all of my freestyle builds are on the happy

[00:37:11]   model AO and the durability from that AO is just mind numbing it's really absurd how good that aiio is and just like complexity right like you can do a

[00:37:28]   HappyModel Mobula 6 fully upgraded Full Tilt freestyle build in like 15 minutes whereas with the with the BetaFPV setup you're probably into like an hour you got to get the wire runs absolutely

[00:37:41]   perfect and it's just a lot more work to do the BetaFPV build I've done both way way way long ago probably like two is years ago when I was trying to figure out like what the Ultimate

[00:37:58]   Freestyle tiny whoop was going to be I did a BetaFPV cross build with all the tricks and then a Mobula 6 build the Mobula 6 rig was lighter and way easier to build and then the aiio just

[00:38:15]   never died and because of those two things I ended up just moving the the the other build along I think I actually sold it or I might have done a actually I think I did a giveaway with it and

[00:38:26]   I've kind of never looked back since and ever since then I've heard from so many people that they hate the BET FPV cross AOS and I don't really hear that much about the Mobula 6 AIO most

[00:38:37]   people what I hear about the Mobula 6 AO is like holy hell how is this thing so cheap and so indestructible so for Racers it's a no-brainer you have to do the BetaFPV setup with the external VTX

[00:38:54]   because HappyModel does not do a good enough job regulating ating their power output on the vtx's on the buil-in vtx's for freestyle that [@$#%] don't matter the the it's and

[00:39:07]   it's actually kind of a good thing that that their their vtx's are pushing a little bit too hard you get a little bit of extra Mills for although I guess you could argue the other side of that

[00:39:17]   is that the extra power makes more multi pathing but depends on where you fly so those are the those are the two sl3 main reasons for me are there people with the BetaFPV setups that fly

[00:39:29]   freestyle on them absolutely the the weight is is is pretty important though and I I actually like the idea of having a separate VTX in case the VTX goes you don't have to replace the

[00:39:46]   AO but with the HappyModel board it doesn't die right so the the argument like I hate aios like you guys know this you guys know that aios are are like the worst thing to happen to

[00:39:59]   FPV since I don't know something else bad that's happened to FPV but if the aiio Never Dies then my main complaint about them goes out the window and that's kind of the situation with the

[00:40:13]   HappyModel Mobula 6 AOS is that they just don't die so hell give me less work to do let me just solder on a bt2.0 lead plug in an antenna plug in some Motors and start flying right so

[00:40:27]    limit says what are your thoughts on Quicksilver I just bought a fractal 65 was wondering if I should put it on it I tried to look at your channel but didn't find content about

[00:40:36]   Quicksilver I've tested some of the other firmwares over the years and every single time it ends up being like okay there's this like one or two cool there's like one or

[00:40:53]   two cool little things about this other firmware but there's no information online about him or very little information online very few people are actually flying it

[00:41:04]   to ask questions to and then they're just not as good like I think of it this way BetaFlight has had 30 plus developers working on it for over a decade how is anything ever going to

[00:41:21]   catch up to that like it doesn't matter if it's Quicksilver or kiss or race flight or like whatever it's just it's just unrealistic to think that like a guy or like a couple of guys can just

[00:41:35]   magically come up with a different firmware that is is going to be better all around than the one open-source project that's been going from the very beginning some of them have come

[00:41:49]   close because they've just taken BetaFlight and forked it right so they take that 100,000 Plus hours or whatever of work work that the BetaFlight devs have done and then they they change the

[00:42:00]   names of a couple of things and add like one or two kind of cool features and then for a couple of months that firmware might for a very specific group of people might be better

[00:42:15]   but then BetaFlight updates and it's just and they put a bunch of extra cool [@$#%] on that they've had their 30 plus devs working on or whatever and it's and it's just you're back

[00:42:24]   to kind of square one so I I I don't I think quicksilver's been around for a while and I and I think I've maybe tried it I don't know it BetaFlight is phenomenal like betaf

[00:42:43]   flight has the most sophisticated filtering it's got feed forward which really allows you to beautifully dial in on your stick response you can get your pids to a point

[00:42:58]   where there just is no prop wash as long as you have a half decent motor drivetrain set up basically and that's kind of it and there's tons of information and resources

[00:43:11]   available for it so for another for for me to go to another flight form where it better be like unbelievably better right and they're not like they're just different and if

[00:43:28]   if you're just trying to some if you're just want to try something that's different there's nothing wrong with that but for me I'm sort of over it like I've I've gone down that road a

[00:43:39]   whole bunch of times of like just trying [@$#%] that's different just for the sake of being different and every time I've done that in the end it's just like man what a waste of time this was or

[00:43:52]   like there's a new update on BetaFlight and now all of a sudden it's better and it's like well [@$#%] now I got to go right back to BetaFlight and so and in most

[00:44:04]   cases like I said BetaFlight is better it's just everybody else that wants to try to make it a firmware has an impossible task of catching up on an unbelievable amount of R&D that's been

[00:44:16]   done by the BetaFlight devs on an unbelievable number of rigs too right like I don't want to have like my tiny whoops on one flight firmware and then my C whoops on a different flight

[00:44:25]   firmware and then my 5-in freestyle rigs on a different flight firmware that's going to ruin your ability to fly to have like a set of muscle memory that translates from one rig to the other

[00:44:38]   you want to pick and then keep as much stuff the same as as possible in my opinion and in my experience but all that being said trying different firmwares will make you

[00:44:51]   appreciate BetaFlight that much more because you'll find like one or two things that you're like oh this is interesting and cool and then you'll spend some time with it and then a lot

[00:45:00]   of times when you go back you'll be like got it so it's a it's a really good experience to kind of go through if you have the time and if you have the Curiosity but nine times out of 10

[00:45:13]   people end up coming back to BetaFlight and so if you're trying to get good if you if you're trying to not waste a lot of time you might just want to stay but like I said no wrong answers if

[00:45:27]   if if you're super super super curious go for it worst that's going to happen worst possible thing that's going to happen is that you're going to come back to BetaFlight and be like damn

[00:45:37]   betaf flight's the [@$#%] and that's a good that's a good little experiment to kind of go through at some point in your FPV journey I've done it a whole bunch of

[00:45:46]   times W I'm way behind how am I this far behind already holy Christ Damon says is there a world where you would send Chris Rosser tiny whoop Motors to test no because his test rig will not work with

[00:46:06]   tiny whoop Motors it's just not designed for him hey did 1404 Motors and I think that's pretty much as small as he's going to go that that weight that he's got is just way way

[00:46:21]   way too big and I'm not going to dump a bunch of motors on and be like here reinvent the wheel on your on your testing gear not to mention that it's very obvious

[00:46:31]   like with with tiny whoop Motors it's is night and day which motor has the most power and that's really kind of what we're and then runtime is pretty easy to kind of figure out as

[00:46:43]   well right tiny whoop Motors are not in a place where so the 1404 motor testing he did there were like a dozen different Motors that that he had available to test and they were all in like very

[00:46:59]   similar KVs with tiny whoop there's not that there's like one there's 1 702 that's 36,000 KV there's one 0702 that's 40,000 KV there's one 702 there there's two 72s that are 32,000 KV and it's

[00:47:18]   obvious when you fly the two of them that the HappyModel makes more power right so we're we're just not in a situation with tiny whoops where there's enough different options that we that we

[00:47:30]   would benefit from from that kind of testing and in a way that's kind of a good thing right like less analysis paralysis The HappyModel Motors are damn good I'm super curious if somebody could do

[00:47:44]   it better if RC and power could do a 702 36,000 KV that's better I would love to know the answer to that but I don't know apparently it's very very difficult to make the tiny little Motors but we're

[00:48:02]   starting to see it we're starting to see more motor manufacturers come on board and make more of these lower KV lower sized High KV Motors until there's a bunch of different options

[00:48:14]   though I mean it's there's not a whole lot of value in doing it because like at a given KV and motor size at most we've got like two options and when you fly those two options if if if

[00:48:28]   one of them makes drastically more power great run that one if they seem the same run whichever one is the right is your favorite color and sort of away you go all drizzle goes have you tried beta

[00:48:41]   FPV Motors yet angry Don says they don't fly too great or the runtime sucks because the magnets are flat I have not they were supposed to send me some of their 07 02s I dropped the ball

[00:48:54]   initially and then I realized that I dropped the ball and I got back to them with the info they needed and then I think they might have dropped the ball during the course of that going on

[00:49:05]   Angry da and quad 66 and somebody else reviewed those Motors versus the happy models and all of them said that the happy models were the way to go and at that point I'm just like done you

[00:49:21]   know like no reason for me to also pile on and at the end of the testing that's going to take me hours and hours say to you guys the Happy monel Motors are better right like like if if there's one

[00:49:32]   or two people that I trust that come to that conclusion like good to go man let me test something else like these iflight Zing 102s right like I haven't seen any info on these whatsoever so

[00:49:45]    I I if they send them to me I'll probably end up testing them but I I think that ship is sailed I I I think that which is fine like like look this is not me

[00:49:57]   this is in no way shape or form me saying like [@$#%] you better FPV they've sent me a couple of things over the years for free and that's amazing like I'm a lucky boy for that you know

[00:50:08]   I was the one that dropped the ball in the first place if if when they first asked me if I wanted to test the motors I had actually clicked send on the email rather than letting it sit here

[00:50:17]   and then it ended up in my drafts I would have already tested them by now Al drizzle also says don't have many ches for high KV whoop Motors in Canada other than BetaFPV and HappyModel

[00:50:31]   nobody does those are the only two companies making high KV whoop Motors when the new mobula motors come out unless we spend almost 100 bucks on duties

[00:50:44]    those are the only options brother it's no different here in the US or or anywhere else on Earth as far as I know I I haven't seen anyone else go north of 30,000 KV which is when things

[00:50:56]   start to get really interesting Doug Douglas otwell says C fpb and gang what is the 75mm frame to use I thought until very recently that it was the BetaFPV meteor

[00:51:10]   75 air but then over the last couple of live streams a bunch of people have said that I broke my 75 airframe on the first crash on the second crash on a light crash so I don't know anymore

[00:51:29]    it's only like $4 so I would love more people to just snag one and try it and if it breaks it's only a half an hour to swap the motors and the the canopy over previous to that

[00:51:42]   frame coming out that that frame is one G lighter than the Mobula 7 V4 previous to that frame coming out this was the one to have the the mobio 7 V4 it's pretty damn durable

[00:51:56]   eventually you will break one of these little I don't know what the hell these are called pieces of plastic that hold the battery in I have broken a couple of these but man i' I've abused these

[00:52:10]   frames pretty good and they've and they've held up so I think this is I think we're back to the Mobula 7 V4 frame it also depends 1S versus 2S I'm making the assumption that you're 1s

[00:52:22]   if you are 2S the Mobula 7 V3 frame apparently is like damn near indestructible so that's almost a no-brainer but I it feels like the mob 7 V4 is still kind of the way to

[00:52:37]   go for a 75mm frame but get one of each and crash them yourself maybe you crash differently maybe it's a different temperature where you're at and maybe the seven you can take advantage of the

[00:52:49]   gram less the the one less gram of weight on the 75 airframe I think if you only want to buy one frame though it should be the Mobula 7v4 Frank dickas says spinning cap

[00:53:06]   also spinning cap 836 spinning cap oh oh talking about the the the weha screwdriver yep I I bet you Frank said that 10 seconds before I mentioned the the spinning cap on it

[00:53:22]   it's I know it seems like a little thing but man it's makes it's makes a difference it lets you since you don't want to strip these little screws out it lets you really push good

[00:53:32]   and hard on the screw to make sure that you don't lift up which is what Philips head loves to do Denzel the terrible says hammered ass CiottiFPV 2024 indeed my friend indeed Bob Bruce says I've killed a beta

[00:53:49]   FPV cross AIO I've also killed a HappyModel cross AIO as well but I have I have a good one of both also also The HappyModel cross AO can go to hell as far as I'm concerned I don't consider

[00:54:02]   that to be a real AO I I it's a figment of my imagination because that's the only way that I can explain why the hell they would have used such a long USB port on it so I do not recommend

[00:54:15]   anybody get the HappyModel cross AIO and I've also not heard good things about it durability wise the the regular old Mobula 6 Square shaped aiio 5vt elrs is just awesome

[00:54:34]   ARX UK says BetaFPV 1102s the ones on the meteor 75 Pro are .18 gr heavier than RC and Power 102 for my tests they make quite a difference in performance I've heard this before most recently

[00:54:48]   I heard it from Mo FPV those are next I'm going through the 102s because I'm trying to keep the weight as low as possible but the BetaFPV 1102 2200s I've heard a couple of people

[00:55:04]   say really nice things about so they're coming I'm just easing my way into it and testing the 102s first and then we'll dive into the 1102s Timmons is in the house he says

[00:55:17]   one more question would it be a good idea to reinforce the ceramic elrs antenna with some E6000 or 7,000 or just let it break and do the wire mod instead I just let it break into do the do

[00:55:29]   the wire mod if I'm completely honest because the the the wire the piece of wire mod is lighter weight and it's basically infinitely durable oh and everybody

[00:55:44]   okay I think everybody's okay it's lighter weight it's infinitely durable cuz it's a piece of wire and it performs better like when when I first did mod I was looking at like I

[00:56:00]   was looking at link quality and with the piece of antenna the link quality was better when I would like go two floors upstairs I'm like okay so I I don't bother to reinforce the Ceramics I hope

[00:56:12]   that they break off so that I can replace them and I've actually removed a couple of the ceramic antennas now and put the wire on right away it's kind of annoying to do it so I actually don't

[00:56:24]   really recommend it I I just recommend wait it'll break off eventually and then you can swap it out to remove it the the problem with removing the ceramic tower antenna is that it's got

[00:56:37]   four solder pads and the tip of your soldering iron you're going to be able to get two of those pads hot but it's a real son of a [@$#%] to get the other two pads hot so you end up having to like

[00:56:47]   push it through the ceramic antenna and then it melts and gets all it's just kind of a mess it's absolutely doable but for me just it work works okay so just let it break and then replace

[00:57:00]   it Mo FPV says excited for this one got the 122s on my 75 122s I thought you had 1102s on it what which 122s do you have on it I haven't seen any 122s that are three bolt or

[00:57:17]   or high enough KV what do you was that a typo maybe project Mockingbirds in the in the chat what's up fellas let me I'm going to make you a moderator cuz I want your name to show

[00:57:30]   up in blue but please don't moderate I've got plenty of moderators in here welcome thanks for coming by project Mockingbird is one of the flight firmwares that I ran that was totally

[00:57:44]   fine and they had a couple of things that were really neat but it just it just doesn't make sense to me to have multiple different firmwares on on multiple different rigs for me I try to

[00:57:55]   UNIF everything and have as little change between one to the next to the next to the next to the next but again like I said earlier if you got it there is definitely some value trying

[00:58:09]   other flight firmwares because they are different they are slightly different and for whatever reason if it connects with your brain better that's awesome and then if down the road you

[00:58:19]   go back to BetaFlight and you actually like it better that's cool too like whatever no wrong answers I'm not paid by BetaFlight like I there's no reason that that I would say

[00:58:31]   that one's better than the other I haven't tried them all that's for sure because it takes time and I'm that's not necessarily where I want to be spending my time and I've yet to

[00:58:42]   hear like everybody say like you have to run this one for like when when I went really so the the the biggest the biggest like money and time suck that I've ever spent on different firmware has been with kiss

[00:59:03]    and there were a bunch of people that were likeit's mindblowing it's so good you have to try it and I spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars building a kiss rig to Steel Davis's

[00:59:17]   specs way back when and I was so excited and I was like this is going to be it man like I'm just starting to get good this is going to be how keep getting better and I'll be a part

[00:59:28]   of this little group of people that are like there's a bunch of great pilots in there and it was a nightmare and it was it was worse in every way than than BetaFlight but

[00:59:40]   like I was so hellbent because I'd spent so much money and so much time and it was really difficult to find anybody that knew anything about it and I like to try to approach this

[00:59:52]   stuff a little bit technically rather than just like try these pids maybe they'll work for you like that's kind of all it was back then with with kiss and race flight and just the whole

[01:00:04]   experience was just a complete nightmare but then when I went back to BetaFlight it was like oh my God this is so good and that right there was I was so excited to fly beta

[01:00:20]   flight from that point forward and then down the road I tried what was the next I tried race flight next I think and then after that I tried Helio at some point I did I'm pretty sure I tried Mocking

[01:00:39]   Bird early days I either tried Mockingbird or Quicksilver early days I'm pretty sure I didn't try them both but every time that I've strayed from BetaFlight when I come back to

[01:00:55]   BetaFlight I'm just blown away and at this point RPM filtering works so well anti-gravity works so well feed forward is so nice the combination of Jitter reduction and the

[01:01:11]   RC smoothing allows me to really dial in just the right amount of stick smoothing so there's just a whole bunch of things in BetaFlight that I really rely on to get my flight footage to look the

[01:01:24]   way that it does and for the rigs to feel the way that they feel and to have as much of these different builds feel as similar as possible to one another that for me personally it just doesn't

[01:01:37]   make any sense to go with some other firmware unless everybody says likethis is way better and that's not it right there's like a small group of people that'll be like th this

[01:01:54]   is like definitely way better and a and that's also a big red flag for me when people say likethis other firmware is way better it's so great no that that's that sounds like

[01:02:11]   you're drinking the Kool a like BetaFlight has had the most development the most R&D time how could something else from one person be that much better like how is that possible and so

[01:02:25]   there t to be a lot of red flags there but I've certainly heard that in like specific situations like sometimes like with specific aios that either mocking bird or Quicks over work really

[01:02:41]   really well when that person could not get BetaFlight to work well I've not really experienced that other than the the HappyModel diamonds which has been proven by people just to be an

[01:02:55]   electrically noisy piece of [@$#%] I've just never had the experience where like with a little bit of effort I can't get BetaFlight to work brilliantly but a lot of people aren't willing

[01:03:08]   to change things they're not willing to move sliders around they're not willing to type a couple of questions into Google and read a couple of answers or look up a couple of YouTube videos

[01:03:18]   and so if spending a half an hour going to a different flight form where it gets the thing to fly a little bit better they're toally happy with that and that's okay it's just

[01:03:30]   that's not me and I think that's not a lot of you guys either right like you probably wouldn't be here if you weren't willing to spend search a little bit but again at the end of the day

[01:03:44]   if you love the way mocking bird flies or the way that their gooey is set up or whatever there's no wrong answers you're not on the payroll of BetaFlight or anything work what fly what

[01:03:58]   you like the best I just try to give you guys my experience and the the reasons that I choose one over the other to possibly save you time or effort or frustration or whatever but

[01:04:11]    there's some really cool people doing really cool things in Flight firmware and what I really love is when somebody Forks BetaFlight and then they put a really cool feature in that the

[01:04:22]   BetaFlight devs see and go oh we need that right like that's really really cool to see everybody kind of working together on the goal of having flight firmware that flies as good as

[01:04:34]   possible and I think more often than not that happens even though like sometimes it doesn't feel like it sometimes it feels like each one of these flight firmwares hate one another

[01:04:45]    and I don't think it's actually maybe it is but where we at Mai says wait hold on mafy says we we really need more tiny whoop Motors and flight controllers because

[01:05:08]   they're always sold out amen he also says I like BetaFPV Motors that have bearings it's rare to see a tiny whoop motor with bearings I'm curious about bearings versus bushings on the same KV

[01:05:19]    quad 66 did some really nice testing and basically what he found is that the bearing Motors when they're absolutely brand new before you've crashed them even once they're slightly quieter

[01:05:33]   than the bushing Motors but he also said that they felt like they had less power but then more importantly is that as soon as he started to crash the bearing Motors they got way noisier than

[01:05:46]   the bushing Motors I had talked to Kebab Bob rugie from FPV cycle about the the tiny little Motors eons ago and he said to stay away from the bearings on these on the little tiny

[01:06:02]   tiny whoop Motors because the bearings that they're using are he's a dentist they're Dent Dental drill bearings and he said he looked into it and they're we are turning them at a way

[01:06:14]   higher RPM than they're designed for and that would make a lot of sense as to why the the bearing Motors are just not holding up if that's true I I have no way of factchecking that I

[01:06:27]   probably do if I could figure out the the the designation of what those little bearings are but I'm not going to spend my time doing that because the bushings work amazing and a bushing

[01:06:39]   is always going to be more durable than a little bearing Jason black black says a good friend of mine told me life moves fast if you don't stop and look around once in a while you could miss it

[01:06:50]   do you think that's true of a good tune that's a that's a very s ilar quote to a quote in Van Wilder actually where are my old [@$#%] at who remembers the movie Van Wilder what's

[01:07:07]   what's oh God what's his name what's that actor's name that was like super popular for a few years and did all of those movies in like the late 990s early 2000s mid 2000s ah I forget his name but it's very

[01:07:28]   similar to a quote from Van Wilder do you think that's true of a good tune good Tunes move pretty fast if you don't stop and look around you could miss them no I don't think that's true of a

[01:07:42]   good tune I think what's true of a good tune is that if you crash a lot a good tune is not going to last you really long a good tune is going to need to be backed off pretty quickly if you

[01:07:55]   crash a lot this is one of the reasons that I don't tune to the bitter limit because it just gets annoying every couple of crashes to have to back the tune down and then back it down and then

[01:08:05]   back it down and back it down I would rather run the tune up to the point where there's barely any prop wash and then it's my job to not put the rig into situations that generate hideous amounts

[01:08:15]   of prop wash and then I can leave the tune alone beat the living [@$#%] out of the rig eventually when the rig is so beat up that the tune doesn't fly right anymore or it tries to fly away that's

[01:08:26]   my signal to replace the motors or the propellers or the arms or whatever and then I replace those and the and the rig flies exactly the same if if you chase the dragon and you turn tune to

[01:08:38]   the absolute limit and then as you crash you back it off and you back it off and you back it off and you back it off every single time you fly that rig it's going to fly differently and God forbid

[01:08:49]   you have multiple rigs each one of them is going to fly differently because each one of them is going to be at a different like state of Destruction so for me it's like find

[01:09:02]   a tune that's aggressive enough but not overly aggressive and just fly the damn thing and just beat it up until it tries to fly away and then fix whatever's mangled on

[01:09:12]   it sebd says if not the cross what flight controller for a baby Nas goul what is a baby NZ schol okay so that's a tooth wait no what okay that's not going well oh

[01:09:34]   okay so that's just like a little babito thing two and a half what is happening wny what is the internet broken we finally did it the internet broke I mean personally I would run a a

[01:09:54]   happy f45 amp they're hard to get your heads on I don't really know of any like little tiny aios that are really all that good I've been relying on the HappyModel 5 amp forever because it's

[01:10:09]   been available now that it's not available I've yet to have anybody say to meI finally found I've had a bunch of people recently that have said likeI'm trying out this hglrc 1s

[01:10:24]   AIO I think it might be the one and then a couple days later they reply back with one of them was dead right out of the box and the other one died three batteries in I keep hearing that like

[01:10:37]   tun RC is the only company that I've heard recently makes a an AIO that's even worth apparently it's really really good but it doesn't have the VTX built in I don't even know if it has elrs built in

[01:10:51]    so unfortunately I just don't know I I've not heard of many if any aios that are any good unfortunately I wish I had Mo FPV says 1102 sorry awesome I knew it I knew it ant bvtc says I tried soldering a

[01:11:12]   new UFL connector onto my X12 but how can I test that it is soldering that it that it is soldered and working correctly don't run an antenna on it put it far away till the point where you get some

[01:11:27]   static in the goggles and then put an antenna on it and see if it clears up that'd be the easiest way to do it project Mockingbird says for me since most people want my angle mode stuff I

[01:11:38]   just can't recommend BetaFlight since it has the gyro gyro overflow problem so the angle mode stuff is what I've heard consistently people like about Mocking Bird over BetaFlight I think

[01:11:54]   I remember seeing in either BetaFlight 4.4 or 4.5 that they're reworking angle mode I haven't flown angle mode in five or six years so I just don't pay any attention to that but I have

[01:12:13]   heard from a bunch of people that project mocking birds angle mode is hands down better than BetaFlight which makes a lot of sense because BetaFlight hasn't changed their angle

[01:12:24]   mode in eons so and project Mockingbird seems to actually have done something with angle mode and doing something is always going to beat doing nothing so if you fly angle mode I would

[01:12:39]   say definitely try project mocking bird I I don't and I have no interest in trying angle mode so for me I'm just not going to go down that not going to go down that path

[01:12:53]   Project B bird says also says tuning wise BetaFlight Quicksilver emu they're all the same in flight performance nobody's better or worse they are there are all amazing they

[01:13:04]   are all amazing that is the that is the the the brilliant part of that last statement they really are I mean I I keep one of my very first 5 in setups here which is on betaf

[01:13:20]   flate 3.5.7 with a half decent tune terrible 30x30 aiio but all things considered compared to the electronics that we have now terrible Electronics yes there is a difference between that

[01:13:39]   and these on BetaFlight I think these are all still on 4.2 absolutely you can tell a difference between the two of them if you put them in in the hands of or showed the flight footage to anyone

[01:13:53]   that's not a very seasoned PV pilot they would have no idea the flight firmware has flown extremely well for the last like five years there have definitely been some improvements RPM

[01:14:08]   filtering is is the one that always comes to mind just because RPM filtering is like look the the other filtering is are audio filters like literally for the audio World and they they work better

[01:14:26]   than they should but they're not meant for us RPM filtering is is like almost specifically for the way that these things work and so it's just something that that that is reporting

[01:14:40]   actual data rather than analyzing whatever we won't go down that rabbit hole but there are some things that have changed but man they they all really do fly extremely well and so

[01:14:52]   so when I say to you that like a huge red flag is when somebody says like this flight firmware is so much better oh my God it's so much better that's total nonsense none of them are

[01:15:03]   so much better they're may be a little tiny bit better but like most Pilots is going to sound mean but most Pilots aren't good enough and it's just I spent 4 hours getting this flashed over you

[01:15:19]   better godamn well believe that my brain is going to convince me that this is way better welcome to the wonderful world of placebo my friends it's just it's a real thing and even if

[01:15:31]   you sit there and you're like I know the placebo is there but let me I'm going to try to work through this it's still there so but they do all fly extremely extremely well

[01:15:44]   Walter says have you seen HappyModel Eco it has hd0 too heavy I mean it's awesome for what it is but it's just like these WalkSnail builds it is a like 30 to 40% increase in

[01:16:05]   weight and that's just too much that that's just a so much of an increase and with freestyle flying why like what why wreck the flight performance for the video to look

[01:16:21]   a little bit better like we're not flying cops and basically what they turn into with the the HD systems is cow whoops but that's not what we're doing we're flying freestyle we're not flying

[01:16:35]   cinematic so it's like for what it is it's awesome and I love that it exists but when you compare the flight performance of any of these HD tiny whoops to their analog

[01:16:50]   counterparts it's absolutely night and day and there are things that you just not do with that extra weight like there are just tricks that you will not be able to pull off and for me it's way

[01:17:02]   more fun to not see where I'm going I'm saying that tongue and cheek a little bit right because you can still see where you're going with analog especially when you're flying in

[01:17:10]   the house 5 feet away from yourself but I would rather have a little bit less of a have a little bit harder of a time seeing where I'm going but have more runtime more power to wait and be able

[01:17:22]   to hit the big gnarly backwards upside down Matty flip bouncing off the wall having crash recovery come on halfway through what I'm saying so for me it's like what do you want do

[01:17:36]   you want a c whoop do you want the smallest C whoop ever then HD zero WalkSnail awesome if you want a freestyle rig it's analog it the the the the weight difference is is just too big

[01:17:51]   so that's just me though if if if you're happy with the way an hd0 freestyle rig performs that's all that matters but for the love of God make sure that you fly an analog

[01:18:04]   counterpart to that rig because it is outrageous the performance that we can get from these 17 18 gam rigs and even though the hd0 and WalkSnail builds fly really good for what

[01:18:18]   they are I would rather have something that flies really good full stop then like this is pretty good for what it what I mean like like I want it to just fly

[01:18:30]   really good without that caveat limit says is there any way to unbend a motor or is it dead when the shaft is bent you can you you kind of like roll the motor you got to get the motor to spin

[01:18:47]   and you got to be able to see which direction the motor shaft is bent in and then you got to very carefully take it and try to bend it the other way and if by some miracle you you

[01:18:59]   manag to make the situation better and not worse which is typically what happens you're going to crash it a couple more times and it's going to bend in the exact same way so I I did that

[01:19:11]   quite a bit with 5-in motors way back in the day and it was like I would bend them back one time I would get a few more crashes it would bend all the way again I would bend it back again I would

[01:19:21]   get one crash and it would be wrecked again and it's just such a pain in the ass to do it that it's just what my time is worth more than this let me just spend a couple of bucks

[01:19:31]   replace the motor and a way we go danilla the terrible says see project mock Mockingbird about bearings above he says a secret person in the industry told me bearings on whoop

[01:19:43]   Motors aren't any better than bushings Bob is 10,000% correct but secret person also now makes bearing Motors just because of demand yep there you go

[01:19:57]    these companies are in business to make money and so if a bunch of people want something and if it's not going to catch on fire and burn their house down why the hell not you want

[01:20:08]   bearings in your Motors great if you're not going to do any testing or listen to anybody that actually does the testing about it then it's on you and they're they fly

[01:20:21]   okay just not as good Jay hin says I have a Pavo Pico and not impressed with the power on it that's because it's a cop cops you're typically not going to be impressed with

[01:20:35]   the power on they're not meant to have lots of power ah look at that yes I understand it's not for free styling was thinking of moving over to an 85mm what's a good flight controller and

[01:20:45]   decent power motors for it I just don't know man I'm just not up on the aios tun RC seems to be the only company making aios that are even remotely reliable and then in terms of

[01:21:03]   Motors man it depends 85mm that puts you into like a two well do this whatever the motors are on your Pavo Pico hold let me see probably look it up really

[01:21:21]   quick so the Pavo Pico which is a 45 mm prop which is like 1.7 in 1.8 in has this method that I'm about to do works really really well by the way so the Pavo Pico has 112 Motors on it so

[01:21:43]   to go up to a 2in propeller you're going to want to do you're going to want to take the 11 and go to like a 12 or a 13 and then you're going to want to take the 02 and go up to like an 03 or maybe

[01:21:53]   even an 04 but probably an 03 so at the very least you're you're going to want to go from an 1102 to 1103 ideally what I would be doing is going to like a 1203 or a 1204 or maybe

[01:22:08]   even like a 1303 when you go to a 2-in propeller also the Pavo Pico it looks it's designed for triblade props when you go to a 2in prop you're going to have a ton of different propeller

[01:22:23]   options so going a little bit too big on the motor to like a 1204 or a 1303 that'll give you the option to run like a 4 blade or a five blade propeller and you've got a little bit

[01:22:35]   too big of a motor I would always rather have slightly too big of a motor than slightly too small and because of the fact that you're saying that you're wanting to

[01:22:46]   Freestyle the Pavo Pico which is going to be lighter because it's a smaller frame it doesn't have enough power and it's on an 1102 going up to a 2 in you're going to gain

[01:22:56]   a bunch of weight so going from an 1102 to 1103 would probably give you roughly the same power to weight ratio so go up to a 1203 or a 1303 right like you want to take the jump and then

[01:23:08]   another jump because it's not where you want it to be if it was perfect the way it is now and then you were going up to the heavier setup you'd be able to just take one jump 11:02 to 1103 1102 to 1202

[01:23:20]   something but you're going you're wanting to take two jumps and so just keep keep there's a there's a saying in the in oh this is super nerdy in the in the world of dino

[01:23:36]   tuning cars to add timing which adds horsepower on the D dyo in most of the software that you run you use the page up button to increase the timing and so there's a saying in in that world page up for

[01:23:52]   power so for us it's plus one for power plus one the the Stater width plus one the Stater height Stater height think about percentages of change an 1102 if you go from 11 wide to 12 wide

[01:24:10]   that's like an 8% increase if you go from two tall to three tall it's a 50% increase so increasing your Stater height is always going to add a much bigger chunk of power

[01:24:25]   than increasing your Stater width by a factor of like one or two if you go up like 5 millim wider versus 1 millim taller that's different right but if you plus one or you plus one the plus one on

[01:24:38]   height is always going to have a bigger impact than a plus one on width always think about percentages not just one more millimeter what how much could that P how much could that

[01:24:48]   possibly do well if it's only 2 millim to begin with it's going to do a whole hell of a lot J says yes with the naked cadx polar on it I'm assuming that's the the camera

[01:25:03]   system that's on the that's on the Pavo Pico AJ Farah tagged me but didn't say anything just Mo says I fly HD zero using the fat shark Scout HD I think those are box goggles is it worth it to

[01:25:18]   upgrade for HD zero goggles or should I move to dj3 because I want to do cinematic Motorsport Drift videos that is a that's a pretty big conversation just Mo

[01:25:33]    the the quick and my my quick and dirty answer is going to be that Motorsport and drift video 03 is not good enough for cinematic Motorsport and Drift videos that's just me there

[01:25:49]   are plenty of people that would say that I'm a snob for saying that but I'm entitled to my opinion for me it's GoPro or nothing and the 03 system is not that much better of an FPV

[01:26:05]   camera you could actually argue that it's a worse FPV system than you say you're currently flying hd0 then hd0 right hd0 is ultra low locked

[01:26:21]   latency and great great brightness and dark great exposure algorithm and so as an FPV camera H you could make the argument that hd0 is the best that there is

[01:26:42]   03 is is more of like a split kind of setup where like it works as an FPV system and the range is amazing but with Motorsport and drift stuff you're probably not going to be

[01:26:57]   doing much with range you're going to be in the paddock or you're going to be in Grid or or you're going to be in the grand stands and you're going to be flying like a few hundred feet away so

[01:27:09]   the range Improvement of 03 is not really going to do much if anything for you and the increase in latency is going to be you're going to definitely notice it so

[01:27:23]    my quick answer for you is going to be do you want to go GoPro if if at any point you're going to want to move to GoPro for really good quality footage then do not go 03 it's going to add a

[01:27:37]   bunch of extra weight you're going to have variable changing latency you're going to have significantly more latency and you're going to spend a ton of money on it if you're never going

[01:27:51]   to go to a GoPro then it's an easy it's an easy answer because 03 is like the only game in town if if you're not well I guess not you could do insta 360 Go stuff but why would you so

[01:28:05]    that that's that that's my answer that's a big conversation though that that's a that's a tough one AJ Farris says I've beat my X12 and it's been awesome good joy for Bido there you go

[01:28:16]   X12 I forgot about the X12 and you can still get it that come to think of it X12 is exactly what I would put in a bito or that whatever that flywoo rig was that somebody was asking

[01:28:28]   before that looks just like the Bido the main reason though is that you can get it I've actually had an X12 die with not many batteries through it and then there were a bunch of people

[01:28:41]   that had x12s die I've been running another X12 that's been bulletproof and I haven't heard from many people that they dying so maybe there was just like a weird run but I'm always weirded

[01:28:51]   out when I hear a bunch of people that have have issues Walter says do you have drawing of motor shafts 1 mm 1.5 mm with a grof for retaining Wing retaining ring are they replaceable

[01:29:08]   oh a Groove a Groove do I have a drawing of motor shafts the the retaining ring is replaceable I have no idea where you would get Replacements from whenever I break a

[01:29:29]   motor I save all the little pieces so that's going to be my recommendation is that like start doing that start saving your your broken stuff and then down the road you'll have an extra retaining ring

[01:29:41]    I don't know where you would get those from though so if if you've got a broken motor just hang on to it replace it and then you'll have an extra one for the future big France

[01:29:53]   says Val Kill I think is the name you were thinking of a b earlier in the Stream no it's not Val Kilmer much younger guy he's the here he's also the main actor in Waiting

[01:30:06]    Ryan Reynolds Ryan Reynolds that's it Ryan Reynolds was in Van Wilder and it's was very similar to that quote from before what happened to Ryan Reynolds where the hell's he been what a handsome son

[01:30:20]   of a [@$#%] that guy Jay hold on YouTube just did the thing scrolling back up jind we got that what happened to the chat it got scrolled in a weird way here we go Jun

[01:30:37]   says thanks bro King FPV says hope everybody's doing well and of course you to cpv thank you brother sebd says Ben Stiller almost not quite not quite we're we're caught up

[01:30:50]   cool Walter says he's in a clinic most likely oh he is Canadian denilla says Canadian treasure he is he is Canadian that's right oh you're right he's doing mint mobile that's what he's that's exactly

[01:31:02]   what he's doing Grayson Bowen good call that's right Ryan Reynolds I think he bought mint mobile and he's trying to get people to buy

[01:31:13]   Sprint phones basically okay we got to hurry it's late and we got a bunch of testing to do so first we are going to try the lightest weight WalkSnail freestyle 75mm build

[01:31:32]   that I've that I've got here th this man I went I went deep on this one to try to get it to work I I was really really really trying to get a WalkSnail 75mm freestyle rig for flying

[01:31:51]   around jungle gyms as light as possible and this is really it I'm not at all happy with the amount of power that this thing has but you might be I'm a pretty power

[01:32:04]   hungry Maniac for what this is this is pretty impressive this is a BetaFPV cross AIO WalkSnail light Mobula 6 canopy medeor 75 airframe GemFan blades and a bit of

[01:32:25]   a custom set of Motors this is a set of tiny whoop 0802 33,000 KV Staters that I remov the Bells from and I replace the Bells with the tiny whoop ow Bell with the 1 and a half

[01:32:44]   millim motor shaft if I was going to do this again what I would actually do is get the HappyModel 0802 RS it's their 082 20,000 KV motor with the 1 and half mm motor shaft that Bell

[01:32:59]   is a little bit lighter than this Bell so it would actually perform a little bit better and it's a motor that you can just buy it's just 10 bucks you can buy that motor from get FPV and then

[01:33:10]   pull the c clips pull the Bell off and then put it at some point when the 33,000 KV 802s come back in stock drop the Bell on C clip away you go that's what this is and that's going

[01:33:22]   to be the first thing that we fly here just to get sort of a baseline and then we can kind of take it from there up to the bigger propellers this is I mean this is the the

[01:33:41]   smallest possible motor at the highest possible KV to try to try to maximize that kind of power to weight ratio keep it light keep it durable

[01:33:55]   but when I fly this thing outside you'll see when I'm flying it in here it's not bad it's I mean the these rigs inside the house are kind of chaos no matter what but when I get this thing

[01:34:08]   outside it just doesn't have it's just does not have the power to move itself around in the way that I want these things to kind of move themselves around what I find is

[01:34:20]   that I'm up at like 50 60% throttle all the time flying this thing outside and that just hammers the battery the motors are probably getting too hot and then the magnets are saturating and

[01:34:33]   saturating with heat and it's just it's not the one but I guess if you were going to build an indoor 75mm cop with WalkSnail this might be it because the weight is as low as

[01:34:51]   possible and that's going to get you a little bit extra run time so let's fly this well I'm going to fly it hard at first and then we're going to start flying it

[01:35:01]   like a c whoop after that cuz it really as a c whoop it's really kind of cool but for right now since the battery is fully charged oh God I'm going to fly it hard see so there is a perfect example

[01:35:22]   like to get it to throw up over the couch I have to I actually hit the ceiling there I got to just sit's at Full Throttle for way longer than I would like and again I'm very spoiled by the

[01:35:43]   the ultra lightweight tiny whoops but like I said when you get this thing outside oh boy when you get this thing outside this problem becomes that much more obvious with it just not having quite enough

[01:35:59]   power so the battery has just charged down a little bit so let's fly this thing like a cop this is fun man like you could take this thing to the mall you can take this

[01:36:10]   thing to Target and you can fly it around nice and smooth like a little Ultra itty bitty C whoop that's got some real action 1080 60 and have a really good time but for

[01:36:27]   oh for [@$#%] sake for like a hardcore freestyle rig I this ain't it's just for outside it just doesn't have enough stank aot of pus it needs more

[01:36:44]   stank but as like an ultra small little C whoop it's really cool and now because of how hard I was flying it in the beginning of the battery we are already down at 3.5 volts

[01:37:00]   I'm going to run this pretty low because you can this is a 450mah 1S folded cell battery that's about it's going to start to Brown the VTX out at this point so that should be maybe two and a

[01:37:19]   half minute NOP 2 210 this rig with this with these motors when you start to push it really hard it just eats the battery I'm pretty sure what's going on is that the the motors

[01:37:33]   are getting really hot when the motors get hot the magnets get hot and the the the magnets make less power when they get hot and then you and then you end up pushing harder on the throttle to

[01:37:47]   to overcome that and it and it's just this like cycle that begins of motor's not making enough power getting too hot pushing them to get even hotter and so on and so forth so

[01:38:00]   cop not really a freestyle rig unless you're going to keep it inside the house I don't really like it inside the house as a freestyle rig if I'd kept flying it hard we would have gotten like a minute

[01:38:10]   and 30 seconds and that's just absurd like don't do that to yourself this setup as pretty as it is and as much as I want this to work it's going to come apart just this it's just

[01:38:25]   it's not the one it's not the one meteor 75 Pro but more importantly there's a visitor oh get your little fuzzy ass up here look at him look at this visitor look at that face oh you stink

[01:38:44]   bro stop biting the puppy of all puppies the miniature schneer of all miniature SCH snowers look at that Wiener that's a strong never mind never mind don't don't finish that sentence you lunatic same

[01:39:05]   exact build but in a medor 75 Pro frame with the 45mm GemFan tri blades flywoo 102 23,500 KV Motors I tried this on the 45mm by blades and it was brutal it was nowhere near look at that unit there

[01:39:26]   was nowhere near enough RPM for these by blades so I I put it on these Tri blades and it got a lot better still not happy with this though we'll talk about that more in a second let's put it

[01:39:37]   up in the air and we'll get our second sort of Baseline here and now I need to like kind of remember this I need to remember what this flies and feels like because when I change these motors I

[01:39:52]   need to be a to say like yes or no this is making more or less power so I might talk a little bit less here doesn't mean I don't love you it just means that I'm trying to remember what

[01:40:04]   this thing flies like so let's give it a shot co power says Teddy eats Teddy wants to eat the oh [@$#%] mocking bird says why does stock Mobula 6 2024 not show show what

[01:40:23]   kilohertz it set up on the ESC config that's weird I didn't I don't think I noticed that maybe I did though it's been a while since I tested it look at this dog what's he doing oh [@$#%] he's

[01:40:36]   being Mr Big Stuff oh Teddy Teddy careful what was that Teddy stop it Teddy spaghetti relax Teddy it's gonna rip your beard hairs out buddy Teddy [@$#%] see that little movie did to

[01:41:03]   the side he knew which way it was going oh [@$#%] hold on this is how we spend half a battery every time this dog's down here just just learn to love it learn to love it

[01:41:17]   my friends it's going to be it's going to be worth it I promise because when I do finally take this thing off which till you hear the noise that he makes ready here it

[01:41:26]   goes oh he didn't do it there he goes all right so here oh boy we had a little we got some fail safs going on what is happening with this the beginning of the battery the

[01:41:38]   first time I fly this rig it gets these weird little micro fail safes but then it's fine it's so strange oh my God so this thing is really heavy so inside the house

[01:41:53]   it sucks outside it's better it's significantly better outside but these flywoo motors they've never really like blown me away all right let me me just fly for a second or

[01:42:22]   two up here is a better analog for kind of flying outside man look at the battery voltage all the way down at 3.5 already ah I thought I could keep it off that railing oh there was another little

[01:42:44]   micro fail safe you see that like jarring little rotation that happened there that was it holding the last holding the last no it was it going into micro fail safe that's what it was you

[01:42:58]   know what fail safes are so that big throw this big throw is is always where I kind of like judge oh God where I judge the power of a rig see little bit more

[01:43:22]   power but still not enough oh and boy oh boy is this thing fat it is just the chubbiest chub monster of [Laughter] all yes how can I help you small dog oh he backed off on that one

[01:43:56]   hey careful careful with that beautiful beard buddy careful oh oh I don't think I'm getting out of this one oh and it's starting to Brown out we are at the end of this

[01:44:11]   battery come on Teddy let me bring it home come on Teddy please oh thank you buddy wait no we're good we got a little bit more now we're not so 2 minutes and 51 very weird that

[01:44:29]   this not very weird this gets more runtime watch this look at the difference in weight what's the one thing that most negatively contributes to runtime my friends what is the one thing that a rig

[01:44:46]   has to do the entirety of the battery it's carry its own weight around right so as soon as you increase the weight you almost always demolish the the runtime in comparison

[01:45:01]   the rig we were just flying is 35.2 gr the one we were flying a minute minute ago is 30.8 is that really it I thought it was a bigger difference than that 30.8 oh oh 35 right right right so

[01:45:20]   five 30 five G 30 50% 25% 12 12 and a half or so percent heavier and yet 2 minutes and 10 seconds 2 minutes and 15 50 seconds that right there the the much heavier rig getting significantly more

[01:45:43]   runtime in my opinion is a Sure Fire example of these motors are getting too hot these magnets are getting too hot and then were just dumping amps into these motors you could even argue that I went

[01:45:58]   too high of a KV on this I should have maybe stopped at 30,000 KV but when I tested two identical rigs with 802 30,000 versus 33,000 the 33,000 did fly better hands down and it NE and it

[01:46:13]   didn't have nearly enough power on the 30,000 so I had to keep going but basically what's going on here is that with WalkSnail and with the weight of the 75 802 is not a big enough motor

[01:46:27]   it's not a big enough heat sink to stay cool enough and I pretty sure that's what's going on here but that's not what we're testing tonight tonight we're testing flywoo 102 32,500 KV

[01:46:42]   motors which you just saw against iflight Zing 102 22,000 KV Motors because May because apparently the RC in power 22,000 KV 80 102s make a bunch of power and more

[01:47:06]   power specifically than these flyws there's a chance that these flywoo 102s are just like a cursed motor to use the nman clature of Gamers and they ran like a weak

[01:47:23]   Magnet or there's a massive air gap but there's potentially just something going on about these flywoo motors that they don't make a lot of power they don't make the power that they should for the

[01:47:36]   size and the KV that they are 23,500 KV is is awesome that that's great and the reason I've been so down with these motors is that that's the highest KV that we've really found and

[01:47:50]   for the most part with tiny whoop Motors they're all too low of a KV other than the 72s that we now have but the problem that I've always had with tiny whoop Motors is that they're too low of

[01:48:03]   a KV and so as soon as a slightly higher KV 102 came out I jumped all over it because nine times out of 10 higher KV Motors make more power we might be in a situation here

[01:48:20]   though where that's not true and that's what we're going to find out in a second let me try to get let me try to get caught up on chat here theal of the terrible says were we

[01:48:36]   supposed to remind you to do the frame code giveaway yes we got to get this done first though so that we might have yet another live stream where we don't do it I I

[01:48:50]   apologize we will try though we're g to try [@$#%] I'm gonna have to change motor Direction in here I'll bet let's do this let's weigh these never mind we're not going to

[01:49:06]   weigh the motors because the the wire lengths are drastically different between these two Motors and the wire is very heavy so it and also on the iflight Zing

[01:49:19]   Motors they're using a much thicker insulator on their wires so let's do this to compare these two Motors we're just going to give them the nachin test the flywoo actually feels like it's

[01:49:38]   more nachy wow there's a hell of a difference between these two Motors look at this look at the difference in the the thickness of where the magnets are the the the magnets

[01:49:58]   themselves might be the they should be the exact same thickness but they might not be this flywoo motor the area where the magnets goes is really skinny this might be like a a

[01:50:14]   101.5 or this might be a 102 and a half see what I mean I'm actually kind of excited now more excited than I was that's for sure I thought this was going to be a waste of time and money but boy oh

[01:50:38]   boy is that let's weigh them let's weigh them we are going to weigh them because it does matter it does matter what they weigh flywoo 102 23,500 KV motor 2.57 grams I flate zing

[01:50:54]   2.61 2.61 versus 2.54 so that's not nothing but if the iflight motor makes any more power it'll offset that that difference in weight if it makes two extra grams of thrust right it'll

[01:51:19]   very easily offset especially because there's four of them it'll offset that difference in weight I don't love adding to the all up weight but the problem that we're trying to solve with

[01:51:30]   these WalkSnail 75mm rigs is a lack of power we're not really diving into runtime yet we're not diving into flight Dynamics we are just trying to fix the problem power the the power problem

[01:51:46]    and a rig that doesn't have enough power is never going to make you smile it's always going to be this experience of like you wanting more and the the pit Loop not being able to

[01:51:59]   perform as good as it should because it's down on power for the amount of weight and so lack of power is the first thing if if that's a problem it that is the first thing that

[01:52:14]   you should look to handle with a rig don't worry about runtime don't worry about durability don't worry about anything else figure out how to get enough power into the rig

[01:52:24]   and then take it from there because not enough power it just the whole flight experience sucks the pit Loop is not going to be able to do its job properly you're not going to be happy

[01:52:38]   you're going to have to like limp it around you're going to be crashing because of it you're not going to be able to do all the fun stuff so that is our priority here we

[01:52:48]   are just focusing on thrust and then and once we find figure out a way to get enough of it then we can dive into the other stuff and figure out runtime and figure out durability

[01:53:00]   and all that other very important stuff but this is the most important and in tiny whoops this is the problem that we run into the most right the situation where we don't have enough

[01:53:12]   power to do all the crazy [@$#%] that we want to do so that's the first place we're GNA kind of attack and it's where most of our Focus has kind of been on this pretty

[01:53:26]   much all of our Focus has been on these 75 mil freestyle WalkSnail rigs Cole power says Teddy wants to eat the WalkSnail project mcken bird says oh no we got that

[01:53:41]    I think I think that the Mobula 6 2024 actually ships on 96k do not not quote me on that though I could totally be wrong but I have some weird memory of changing it from 96k

[01:54:01]   to 48 really early on I have a live stream where I opened it up and started messing with it and it's in there and there are time stamps thanks to Apache smoke wed sniper and quad bod so it

[01:54:15]   would be easy to find that but I don't I don't remember offand timman says can you knife edge through the railing slats upstairs I can but the the slats are so close together

[01:54:30]   that it's one of these like zero zero skill 100% luck moves and I try not to do those all that often I try to stick with moves that like I have some chance of hitting consistently

[01:54:48]    I've done it a couple of times by accident I've done it a couple times on purpose but what I found is that it's just not I just I can't do it repeated repeatedly and

[01:55:01]    try not to do those it's just like if I'm going that direction it's like ah throw it sideways to so it's a little bit lower profile and if it goes through it goes

[01:55:12]   through all right let's get these plugged in let's get the motor Direction figured out in BetaFlight and I'm going to put it on Tri blades first just because because I want the only

[01:55:24]   difference from a minute ago to be the motors I would really love to run this thing on the by blades though maybe maybe these motors will work on the by blades why is it so hard to plug this

[01:55:37]   motor in what's happening here oh there it goes that was a little odd hopefully they're not all let's see here come on get in there go Jesus these motor that one was a

[01:55:59]   little bit better there we go what else we got magical killer Hertz right Co power says technically Mah per gram energy density Mah alone is the bigger part but if you don't have the thrust

[01:56:30]   to carry your weight runtime is meaningless because you you won't get off the ground it's there's a there's some Nuance to thrust to weight ratio in that if you reduce the weight the thrust to weight

[01:56:45]   ratio gets better but nine times out of 10 in the process of do like the the extra weight for a bigger motor like a bigger motor will only be like a couple of extra grams and so if you get more

[01:57:02]   than like one or two extra grams of thrust your net power to weight ratio gets better and usually that's what happens usually you'll get 5 10 20 extra grams of thrust from a from a bigger

[01:57:14]   heavier motor not always but typically so more often than not the bigger Motors are going to give you better thrust to weight ratio but there is a point where the rig

[01:57:27]   becomes so heavy that the flight characteristics suffer and so that's why trying to run the the lowest weight motor possible makes a lot of sense amp bvtc says what's your opinion

[01:57:42]   on the cadx amp versus the other cams for analog my main opinion is that all analog cams look like ass the RunCam nano3 is significantly lighter weight than all of the other ones and it looks

[01:57:55]   good enough that it looking like a it looks like the best ass ever CiottiFPV 2024 At Your Service all right here we go let's get these motors spin in the right direction throw some props on and away we shall

[01:58:20]   go batteries plugged in Motors tab motor Direction wizard I understand the risks the props are definitely off starting spin Please Don't Go full throttle oh there's no props on out

[01:58:34]   good in bad reverse it in bad reverse it out good let's make sure that they reversed yep and yep I do have this setup props out right good to go all right let's double check

[01:58:51]   it out out out out cool oh these motors are not super well balanced huh let's try them individually see if there's just one motor that's out that one feels pretty

[01:59:13]   smooth that one's a little viby huh that one's nice and smooth that one's a little yb2 huh interesting not the best balanced Motors right out of the box

[01:59:29]   but like I said I've heard that it's extremely difficult to balance these itty bitty Motors so as long as as long as we don't get Jello then they're balanced

[01:59:43]   enough propellers going on these are the GemFan 455mm hold on actually I'm going to unplug this battery because these motor shafts seem like they might be a little bit bigger I'm having to push pretty

[02:00:00]   hard to get this motor on here which might be an opportunity to shill no I was just not well no okay so it is a little bit difficult to put these props on so I'm going to

[02:00:14]   use this little pin Vie I have six more of these for sale double-sided pin Vie one side has a 1.5 mm drill bit the other side has a .99 mm drill bit PayPal me $40 and I will send you the pin Vie

[02:00:30]   with both drill bits and then what you can do is instead of ruining your Motors you can just take your propellers real quickly put them onto the pin Vie run it down up and down the the

[02:00:44]   appropriate drill bit that'll remove a tiny little bit of material from the props and then when you put them onto the motor shafts they won't be impossible to put on or off and you will

[02:00:56]   stop ruining your Motors that will literally prevent you from ruining Motors because when you push these things on really hard you push the motor shaft down through the motor Bell and

[02:01:09]   that's that and these motors are not free so get yourself a pin viice and support your boy CiottiFPV at the same time and your fingertips will thank you your Motors

[02:01:24]   will thank you your significant other will thank you because of your fingers you gross [@$#%] oh wait's was me being gross this time okay got

[02:01:39]   it all right 45mm Tri blades are on let's see how it is this is not an Absolutely Fresh battery we were doing the motor spin UPS but it's pretty fresh fresh enough Frank Nas says t-shirt giveaway

[02:01:57]   also I would like to do one yes dou outwell says new lava lamp sucks no action what it's the same lava lamp it's just a different top and bottom here we go let's see how they

[02:02:14]   are same or maybe less power oh Christ let's come over here same possibly less I had a funny feeling that those RC and power motors were just magic fly a little bit more let's see

[02:02:38]   what the run time is like oh no man you can hear it's sounds like [@$#%] on these motors it's very like almost grindy on these motors let me come over here by the mic well we

[02:03:13]   tried give a minute to kind of spin in to throw another Absolutely Fresh battery on at the end of this one see what's going on up here all right we're starting to get

[02:03:32]   down in voltage starting to Brown out a little bit oh I think it was about to fall into that gate but didn't quite get there oh boy it's hard to fly these big heavy

[02:03:49]   rigs in the house it feels every bit as lazy and fat and but the motors are not overheating the simig just ate me oh come on give the quad back Sim rig please no no you're not going to you're

[02:04:13]   going to make me walk over there you are well that's only a minute and 48 Jesus this battery was not fully charged though we're going to run we're going to run one more see what the

[02:04:24]    run end up at damn okay well I was I don't know I don't know what I was expecting I I I really want these effing RC and power motors to get here I was using the the the Clone

[02:04:46]   prop popper available over on tiny whoop.com man that was a weird crash I just flew right into the [@$#%] crash symbol oh boy this is heavy man this is a fat fat fatty fat

[02:05:11]   quad and that is the end of that battery 209 Let's hold on we're going to put a fresh one on here though and see what's what all right so last but I I can already tell

[02:05:24]   you don't get these motors I mean whatever they're they're they're probably about the same as the fly wo so if you're going to buy the fly Woos I don't know maybe get these but the

[02:05:33]   flyws are a little bit lighter I would rather have a slightly lighter motor if it's going to make basically the same power all right right back in fully fully fully charged battery let's see if

[02:05:45]   this is any better come on now there it is all right let's see nah you guys can see it right I mean it's just it's pretty much exactly the same what I mean that

[02:06:15]   throws oh man it is so hard to fly these oh my God that was a big hit oh my God I mean you could still do stuff right it's not unflyable it's just it's just it flies like a wet

[02:06:45]   noodle it's so heavy it's so fat that like there's no Precision to it oh well that's awkward super awkward oh man come on man get out of there don't make me walk I did not get

[02:07:13]   into this to walk somebody saidyou want a hobby where you can just sit the whole time I was like damn right I do I don't care what it

[02:07:25]   takes no these motors are not the way buy these or the fly Woos you're going to get pretty much the exact same flight experience I'm tempted to go back to the flywoo now but it's just not

[02:07:40]   I mean it doesn't matter either way the motors don't have enough Jam oh [@$#%] crash recovery saved my ass on that one Jesus I can't do [@$#%] with this oh man I think the run time sucks

[02:08:18]   on these hold on let's see oh my god oh this runtime sucks all right don't buy these man buy the fly Woos at least you'll get some decent runtime all right oh boy a minute and 53

[02:08:41]    don't buy these yikes and that batter is not bouncing back it's just sitting there at 3.7 all right well in the ongoing series of What Not to Buy we have the newest

[02:08:55]   entry which is The iflight Zing [Laughter] 102s I mean that's not even close to 2 minutes and 50 we we pushed that battery a little bit to get the other one to 250 but I mean this is

[02:09:09]   a full minute off like that's no so maybe the efficient 102s are the are the flywoo 23,500 these iflight zings are similar performance-wise but not runtime wise I don't know they're they're

[02:09:27]   it's a bigger can it'll be a bigger heat sink so if you were to like throw two s at these and motor Lim them down a bunch that might be kind of cool they they might be a better motor to do that with

[02:09:38]   because they're bigger chunkier bigger heat sink kind of thing but I don't know I don't know about that I guess I can run I mean I have to take these props off any

[02:09:52]   anyway so I guess I might as well put the by blades on these but ain't G to be that ain't going to do anything good these are no I mean whatever flywoo has look RC and power it

[02:10:11]   seems like they did something magical they UND speec the KV they undp the Stater size something on their 102s I'll let as soon as they get here

[02:10:22]    it's not super surprising that these offer pretty much the same performance as the fly Woos what I've heard from the people that I've heard from is like the the RC and Power

[02:10:34]   102 2200s are just a different thing they're they're UND spec or something and so that tracks with with the experience that we just had here I was really hoping that that

[02:10:48]   bigger the bigger Bell with potentially bigger magets would would make a difference but definitely not definitely definitely definitely not you guys can see that it flies like a school bus

[02:11:01]   right like it just it doesn't it's not good let's try the by blades though I'm not going to push them all the way on because I know they're going to come right back

[02:11:11]   off and I'm going to try to not crash it anybody want to set buy anybody want to buy a set of Zing 102 22,000 if you do let me know they're for sale okay here we go fresh ass battery

[02:11:31]   going on I'm probably only going to do a couple of throttle blips and then that'll be that I turned the goggles off what a donkey all right just for argument sake let's see you never know sure you do do

[02:11:52]   you know what's about to happen I know what's about to happen let's do it anyway come on Avatar HD system come to life give us video

[02:12:09]   out here comes all right GemFan by Blades 45mm by blades let's see oh oh wow oh whoa that I mean that that could be because I don't have the propellers pushed all the way

[02:12:28]   down yikes or it could be what was it 661 was saying earlier hold on Jesus this thing is a mess right now what the hell let me push these props all the way down hold on not the end of the

[02:12:49]   world to have to dig them off with the prop popper all right there we go let's try that you never know man that was nasty though Jesus let's see it's probably going to

[02:13:10]   be exactly the same yep Jesus these props are not balanced that that is almost certainly a symptom of an outof balance propeller let's pull the master multiplier down just to try to get this

[02:13:30]   under control I'm going to pull it down a bunch just cuz I don't want to have to go back in there let's see no man this is nasty it's actually not that much work oh boy

[02:13:52]   um well if these 40 mm props are not balanced I need to get the hell off of this this Frame which I am okay with I I would love for this Frame to not this meteor 75 Pro frame is so heavy I would

[02:14:13]   love to not have to run it I would love to not run it I should say but with these big motors was assuming that I was assuming that the bigger props would help quite a bit and when it moves

[02:14:38]   around but no this is we need significantly more power than this for a proper freestyle rig let me show you what I'm going for Jesus let me show you the performance that I'm that I'm looking for from one

[02:14:58]   of these rigs just just so that we're kind of on the same page that's brutal yikes wow is is is I have all I've ever heard about 45 millimeter props is that they're God's gift to propellers and

[02:15:16]   that I'm an idiot for not running meteor 75 Pro frames on every single rig how is it that I've not heard a single person until tonight talk about these propellers being out of

[02:15:29]   balance and then I've backed it up by seeing them being completely out of balance am I missing something here what's what's what's the deal this is an analog rig on 0802 27,000 KV

[02:15:47]   Motors and this is a rig that performs well actually this is on 30,000 KV Motors now but it performed just like this on the on the 27,000 there was really not a

[02:16:05]   significant difference in power between these two is this the right elrs module no okay knew that was coming so this is the kind of performance performance I'm looking for

[02:16:22]   from this rig in terms of something for Jungle Gym bashing outdoor flying here you go this is what I'm looking for and I won't stop until I get it I'll keep going bigger and bigger and bigger

[02:16:43]   on the motors you'll really be able to see it upstairs so first and foremost the for [@$#%] sake first and foremost the for the record this rig is way too big to fly in the house

[02:17:06]    the hell am I that's this is what I want this is it see the the way that it changes direction oh [@$#%] am I upside down no I'm right side up the way that it throws itself

[02:17:30]   around the way that it floats and I mean just having enough power to do stuff right having enough enough power to comfortably throw itself around without feeling so sluggy and fat and slow to

[02:17:49]   respond that's what I want and I'm pretty sure I can get there but I just have to write I just have to find the right motor the the extra six grams from WalkSnail is a

[02:18:05]   lot ah no I didn't need to disarm there woo [@$#%] oh god oh I can't believe I got away with that oh I think there's oh yes there's Mega uptilt on this rig because there's no

[02:18:30]   Propel there's no ducts in view whatsoever hold on let me turn the up oh God oh God there's like 40 degrees of up tilt what the hell how did that happen okay it's going to be much more

[02:18:49]   realistic to fly okay I still suck though okay what was that what the hell was that what did I even hit so that that throw from the corner watch it now ready and listen listen to

[02:19:10]   how quick ready just a blip a blip of throttle instead of sitting and just hammering on the throttle right like just yep and it throws it the whole way that that's what I want that's the power to

[02:19:26]   weight ratio that I'm looking for and I was able to get it on the 65mm WalkSnail build before I took it apart with the 0702 40,000 KV Motors but the problem was the runtime the

[02:19:44]   problem still is with 65mm WalkSnail rigs is the run time on the little 300 H batteries is just brutal speaking of runtime I'm still flying this woo oh stop it oh stop

[02:20:13]   it what what did I hit you bastard you we'll call it there but look at that runtime 250 and it's at 367 and I was hammering this thing right where'd you go little

[02:20:32]   guy so those are the that's the The Impossible Journey that I've been on to try to get a WalkSnail 75 to fly as good as an analog 75 and we'll just keep going man we'll

[02:20:47]   just keep keep trying different [@$#%] it sounds like either the RC and power 102s or the BetaFPV 1102s might get me there we'll try the RCN Powers first rig's got some Jell-O too I wonder

[02:21:07]   what's beat up it's probably just a propeller that's beat but I do need to look at that there is a an RPM that this thing starts to jell the [@$#%]

[02:21:17]   out let me caught up on chat and then we will shut it on down here get out of there there we go Walter says that prop plopper I want can I buy yours you cannot because I love it

[02:21:36]   so much this is the this is the one that I like if you can get one of these prop poppers get it the other one is is simpler but this is the one that I really like this is the Clone popper

[02:21:45]   from tiny woo Morton upshot says I've found that my HappyModel 20,000 KV 102s have performed better than RC and power 22,000 102s but the HappyModel Motors are soldered

[02:22:05]   okay awesome because I'm not doing [Laughter] that screw you soldering these tiny Motors up come here Teddy Steven Woodruff says any recommendations for a small C whoop for

[02:22:19]   indoor and outdoor flying small C whoop for indoor man that's tough what are you going to be C whooping inside like your own house are you looking to do there's so many

[02:22:40]   questions that I have to ask to make a proper recommendation I'll take some guesses if you're just flying it for fun and you just want the ability to fly it

[02:22:52]   inside like a 2in something like a like a 2in G RC calog or 20 or something man it's going to it sucks to fly inside unless it's a big space but technically you could fly it inside

[02:23:12]    and then it kind of works outside but it's also not going to be great outside something that flies both inside and outside is a mega compromise like if if you want something

[02:23:26]   that'll fly both inside and outside it's going to suck inside and it's going to suck outside so it's that's just and I hate that like I I hate to have to do that to you

[02:23:39]    so super super super difficult question and I mean there's so many questions right are you picking up a full-size GoPro naked GoPro Pro 03 like there there's just so much Nuance

[02:23:54]   to making a proper suggestion on that Kevin the alien with a $10 Super Chat he says gear fund thank you brother 171 goes to 181 Kevin suner is doing a bunch of work on the all cameras

[02:24:09]   front and then when he's done with all of it I'm going to send I'm going to send him however much of this fund he will take and then he's going to send me the cameras and we can test them here as

[02:24:21]   well that's what's going on with that jayhind says what do you think of using runam split 3 light as a cheaper way of seeing it in HD what's it can't do WalkSnail cuz my goggles are fat shark

[02:24:38]   Scout all of the the the split setups other than the RunCam hybrid kind of suck the the the field of view is very narrow the latency is pretty brutal so you end up with

[02:24:54]   something that as an FPV cam is is pretty shitty and then the HD is not all that good either the o03 system is the first time that like the FPV is is acceptable and then the HD is amazing

[02:25:11]   for what it is so I I can't recommend any of those RunCam splits I've tried a lot of them and they just they're just a super super super let down man this

[02:25:24]   chair the this happens to all of these this is this is coming apart and it's starting to get bad enough where it's like catching on my elbow and it makes me so sad because I love this

[02:25:37]   chair and I've had it forever and office chairs are expensive oh man I'm probably going to try to just put a big old piece of Gorilla Tape there but then the Gorilla Tape adhesive

[02:25:50]   is going to catch on my arm hairs and drive me mad Steven Woodruff said no we got that Morton upshot we got that Co pow says easy fix motor limit to 110% oh if it were only that easy 6x1

[02:26:12]   FPV says those sound just like my GemFan 45mm by blades horrible oh what the hell man I'm to toally fine with it I'm totally fine with the 45mm props being out of balance a that shows how insane

[02:26:27]   all these people are that have been saying 45 mm is everything that's the greatest and it also prevents me from having to run a big heavy silly frame I would so much rather force myself to run

[02:26:41]   these 75 mil frames and just try the different motors on them so we'll see although I will say that the the tri blades were fine on 45 so I'm going to keep using this with the with

[02:26:55]   the tri blades and then at some point we will test these I've already run these 102s on the smaller props on the smaller frames and I did notice when I went to the bigger props and the bigger frame

[02:27:08]   they made more power go figure but Kevin suer says do you see the horizontal banding in low light in the WalkSnail goggles absolutely or is that an artifact coming over the stream

[02:27:19]   nope you absolutely see it in the goggles it's just when you go to super super super low light which upstairs definitely is it just it's doing everything it possibly can to give

[02:27:31]   you a flyable image and so it's cranking the iso up the iso is probably like 1,600 upstairs maybe even 3,200 and the noise is going to come when that happens so that's that's

[02:27:45]   just sort of is what it is all of these tiny little cameras with the tiny little sensor are going to struggle in low light it's like crazy what the analog FPV cams

[02:27:57]   manag to do in low light but any kind of like an HD camera where you're squeezing a ton of little pixels into a tiny little sensor are going to struggle in low light 661 says thanks for that

[02:28:10]   thanks for letting me hear your 45mm props because they sound exactly like mine d just loud as hell Kevin Su says you only reading rev are you only reading reviews of those 45mm props

[02:28:21]   on Facebook right CIS FPV says the RC and power 22,000 102s are great on the analog I don't think you're going to be stopping there I'm waiting on 103 22000 for the WalkSnail I'm looking

[02:28:36]   forward to my 103s getting here as well I ordered a set of those from pyro drone I believe I might not have put that order in I did not put that order in did I ah you jerk you didn't put the order

[02:28:49]   in shopping cart's still here though maybe is the shopping cart still here yes it is cool oh that's right that's why I didn't put the order in because they only have one of the 1003s in stock rdq

[02:29:07]   has the other has three in stock so I have to do two more orders Stephen Woodruff says got behind on the stream but planning on carrying a thumb Pro mainly outdoor flying for a

[02:29:26]   cine whoop so the thumb Pro is only like eight grams or something problem is like nothing is set up to carry it that I know of so your your selection a big part of your selection

[02:29:45]   is going to have to be based around what frame someone on thingaverse makes a holder for so that's going to be your first stop is to try to figure out what builds either have a RunCam thumb

[02:30:03]   Pro Mount or somebody on thinker verse makes a RunCam throw Mount th th prom Mount that'll narrow it down to like two different builds and then hopefully it'll be pretty obvious which

[02:30:14]   one to get Northern Tier says I don't think there are a lot of people into 45mm Maybe I'm Wrong building my first one for WalkSnail using the BetaFPV 1102s when 45mm first came out

[02:30:27]   loads of people were like this is the greatest thing ever and then it is I haven't really heard much since then Walter says do that again please do what that was it

[02:30:39]   10:43 how 10:34 one minute ago answer a question that's all I remember doing a minute ago is answering a question damn well we tried them for science if anybody wants

[02:30:56]   these they're all yours I don't know I don't know what I paid but I'll charge you a little bit less than I paid I don't know damn oh well this is why we test thank you for the support

[02:31:14]   friends the reason I can do testing like this is because you beautiful P bastards support me over on SE fpv.one on-one session to really learn some stuff through Fiverr what else

[02:31:32]   buy a t-shirt from Teespring or use my affiliate links they're all up there use somebody's affiliate links man it's free money help us keep making free stuff for you

[02:31:43]   to watch on YouTube and we will gladly keep on doing it some of us will some of us will quit's easy to quit's hard to keep going that's what she said is it is it though these motors are coming

[02:31:59]   right off there there's there's nothing about these motors that I'm like I want to test them more but Sheamus Kelly bought a radio through my affiliate link on Amazon

[02:32:14]   thank you brother I have an affiliate link for Amazon my friends I know you're buying [@$#%] on Amazon change your bookmark to Amazon or if you just type AMA in your url bar type AMA

[02:32:26]   remove the suggestion and then hit my Amazon affiliate link a couple times and then every time you hit am you type AMA into your url bar it'll guess my affiliate link and you won't have to

[02:32:36]   ever think about it again these are the ways that you get some free money com to your favorite creators on YouTube or wherever else you hang out and help them keep doing their thing and do their thing

[02:32:51]   better right the more money that we've got the more [@$#%] we can test and just Smash and Bash Sean Lois media with the last comment of the livest stream he says what motors for a cine whoop style

[02:33:02]   tiny whoop like the one that you were flying earlier I want to build a WalkSnail style like what you're running for indoor Warehouse filming at the RC track Sean you are literally right now

[02:33:15]   watching me figure that out I do not have the answer for you yet yet tonight I I showed you and flew all of the different setups that that all of the best setups that I've found so far

[02:33:29]    and then hopefully more of these motors will continue to come in and I can do more testing but what you saw tonight are the three best setups that I've found so if one of these

[02:33:42]   looks good enough for you awesome none of them are good enough for me yet so I have to keep testing but I don't I don't have answer for you because I I don't even know the answer

[02:33:52]   for myself quite yet but like I said earlier I have pretty absurdly high standards so maybe the 802 setup is enough for you maybe the flywoo 102 setup is enough for you you've got the

[02:34:04]   flight footage you've got my commentary over it hopefully there's one that that is good enough for you otherwise you're just going to have to keep waiting but I'm going to keep

[02:34:13]   testing these as they arrive I don't know what get FPS up to but hopefully they they get me my damn RCN power 102s sooner than later I'm sure they will and we can continue to try to refine

[02:34:28]   this formula but I'm not happy with any of these quite yet cool thanks for hanging friends my name is Aaron Ciotti everybody calls me Ciotti go do something fun do whatever

[02:34:41]   you want the the here's the rest of the flying from the beginning of the live stream love you bye I'm not ready yet oh wow there's like 10 seconds left I'm going to reminded a little bit

[02:34:58]   rewind a little bit this is a early days of the Glide this is back in 2019 actually Blast from Z past March 27th of 2019 flying at my favorite spot in all of Charleston it's the bridge to

[02:35:13]   Daniel's Island a hot little move I'm coming at you with a couple of hot moves on this one that you would have seen at the end of the towards the end of the intro love you

[02:35:25]   bye see you guys Friday a n a